The Herald 12/12 - we want to know...

[-- Janny --]

Guys stop the bashing please... I know their comments are not nice to hear but they are entitled to their opinions. People have different ideas of what Australian Idol should be - for example beaing a citizen, though we may not agree to it. If being a 'citizen' is what takes to be THEIR Australian Idol then so be it... heck people try the dumbest reason on why a certain contestand should win/should not win Idol . Like... people go for the looks and so-called 'THE whole package' and disregard any talented ones who look average (while forgetting that there's one called inner beauty)

Anyway... so it's their opinion really and they are entitled to it. Please do not bash those girls because we don't agree to their opinions. What would Damien think if he sees us behaving like thhis. Surely if we are interviewed by the Herald and complimenting Damien by saying "Damien has much better voice than Jessica', we will not like it of Jessica fans bash us! We will think that they are immature if they do so. So let's all be happy....

[irishscorpio]

Hi Janny wasn't really bashing them. And agreed everyone's opinions are different and valid- my point is that perhaps if somewhere it was in print for people to read, then they'd find another angel to argue. It's really been argued to death and it's something that I take quite personally.

[irishscorpio]

ps you do have a fair comment there...though I would seriously doubt most of D's fans would make what could be perceived as nasty comments towards Jess had she won. However, you're right there's no point wasting energy having a go at them...

[Mysterri]

raiynetalon said:

thebraff said:

Eggs, don't get nasty now. This is a nice and safe place to be!

well the original thread was about those girls being nasty so i thought id get nasty.... we all need somewhere to let it all out sometimes!!

I wonder if those girls like eggs? Raiyne have you got any raw eggs handy that you could throw at them? ;D

[-- Janny --]

irishscorpio said:

Hi Janny wasn't really bashing them. And agreed everyone's opinions are different and valid- my point is that perhaps if somewhere it was in print for people to read, then they'd find another angel to argue. It's really been argued to death and it's something that I take quite personally.

It's just that some people called them names and stuffs. We know the arguments are old but if that's REALLY what they are thinking of, then so be it. It's not that they sent letter to The Herald for their opinions, they were approached by The Herald for their honest opinions. Some people just don't want non-Citizen to win even though it's within the rule that Permanent Resident can enter - it's like some people not wanting contestants to win because they're ugly even though there is no rule saying that ugly people should not enter.

For them a non-citizen is not *their* Idol and we have to respect that opinion though we don't agree. We can argue about it but we should not stoop so low as to bash them in the forum. Damien will not like that

PS: And I think they did not even put any condescending remarks towards Damien. They just said that Damien isn't a citizen and that one is not into fabricated music -_-. So yeah... no need to get violent

[Mi chiamano Kami]

The thing is, it is within the rules of Idol. Residents are permitted to enter. The question wasn't about Idol, it was about Damien. And the 'he's Irish' line as a reason for not wanting him to win is starting to really grate. He was Irish when he first auditioned, but did anyone protest his being allowed to audition? Where were the news stories and petitions? It was only when it started getting towards the final that there was this big outcry.

If someone is a Jess fan then bless them for having taste, but why can't they just say 'I wanted Jess to win' and leave it at that? I think, had Jess won, we would all have been against Damien fans saying that Jess shouldn't have won because she was too young. Or because she had that 'contract' a few years ago. And as much as some of us may think Dean shouldn't have gotten so far as he did, I think we'd all object to the 'he's not really Australian' line had he won. Damien and Jess and Dean were accepted, and that's all there should be to it.

If you allow your opinion to be published with your picture and name (which nobody forced them to do) then I think you should make darn sure you can back it up. I doubt any of those three could convincingly argue their (lack of) points.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but some opinions are hurtful and shouldn't be expressed in public. I should be honest and say that I'm biased with this because I'm the daughter of a Polish immigrant. To be a very young child and hear someone call your father an 'immigrant' as a slur is really hard to take, especially when he's lived in the country for more years than the other person has been alive. Jarvis is too young to hear all of this, thank goodness, but imagine if he'd been a few years older and had to put up with this at school? It's hard for a child to come to terms with their parents somehow not being worthy in the eyes of others, which is why I'd like this kind of ignorant attitude stamped out altogether.

As for someone judging a musician they've never even listened to - words can't even describe what I think of that.

Okay. Time to go play video games for an hour.

[morgaine]

WTF?!?!?!? Where did they find 3 such totally mindless people?!?!?!

flynn said:

Adora-Rose ROFLMFAO

Hee hee. She's a classic!! Draws a love heart and peace sign but has no idea what she's on about. Hee hee. She sells "records"? What does that mean? Second hand vinyls? No wonder she doesnt know anything about what's going on in the world in 2006. Hey honey, people buy CDs now and download stuff to I-pods an' everything. Unless she thinks CDs and mp3s are pre-fabricated while old-fashioned records evolved organically out of thin air.

The other 2 girls are just being petty.

And re: prefabricated - like - how can you sell music if it's NOT prefabricated!?! LOL!

Citizenship thing: Don't they realise that D has shown MORE "committment" to Australia exactly BECAUSE he has come from half way round the world and CHOSEN to live here - his wife & son are Australian - and he's LEFT his homeland to come here and be "a committed Aussie"... Anyway, the Australian music charts are FULL of non-Australian citizens...

Edited to add: Just read Janny's post and now feel very mean & petty...seems like the whole thread may end up in the naughty corner...

[hyperrune]

I don't so much have a problem with their views, it's more the fact that the paper published comments from three people with negative views all in a row. Even if it were 2 negative 1 lukewarm I wouldn't mind. It doesn't represent the view of the population properly. Couldn't they have found just one person who likes his? It's hurtful to open the paper and read only negative views about him.
And on top of that some comments are verging on racial slurs. If you're going to say something and allow people to publish it, at least have an informed view and consider the readers' feelings. That segment alienated everyone with immigrant relatives, such as myself, and everyone who listens to mp3's. Like myself.

[christyl]

hmm...methinks that mabye two of those girls should be carrying a sign that says "I voted for Jess and I'm still sucking on sour grapes..: )

Seriously, though, the real culprit here is the Herald Sun, for publishing an obviously biased viewpoint.

So therefore, I thought I might write a letter to the Editor, something like this.

"Dear Sir/Madam,

Like so many others, I am getting a little tired of the media publishing articles disputing that a permanent resident should have the same benefits as a "real Australian": an argument that has come to the fore recently in regards to Australian Idol winner Damien Leith.

In order to gain Australian Residency, an applicant has to demonstrate that they can contribute significantly to Australia, both in terms of finances they bring into the country, and in terms of gainful employment of a certain standard. The finances involved are not paltry amounts: Mr Leith has himself stated in an interview that it took a number of years of committed saving to raise the required funds to meet the requirement of permanent residency. The word "committed" is particularly meaningful, because it does indeed require a significant committment not only to achieve the status of residency, but to also leave all that is familiar on a leap of faith.

Continuing to debate the topic whether permanent residents should have the same rights as "australians" is UnAustralian in a country that prides itself on giving people a fair go.

I believe that media coverage that continues to debate or promote this issue, without giving equal voice to the opposing opinion (ie: the opinion that the majority of Australian Idol voters), is biased and borders on muckraking.

Issues that individuals have with a permanent resident winning Australian Idol need to be presented where they belong: to the Management of the program, not to the individual who played by the programs rules and fairly won. "

What do you all think?

[-- Janny --]

Nicely written, Christyl! have a go and you may have your opinion published t

[flynn]

Sorry Janny, if your post refers to mine - but I actually do believe that if those girls are happy enough to agree to have their comments posted - and are more than happy to make comments based on

1. NEVER having seen the show or Damien

and/or

2. Citizenship and nothing else

then they should expect people to pull their comments to pieces and criticise them for being petty and rude.

If their comments were fair and made sense then I doubt any of us would be making such harsh criticisms.

I believe in fair comment. I don't intend to be mean just for the sake of it so I hope I didnt come across that way.

And Adora-Rose's comment is funny.

I'm really not a bad person....... am I

[-- Janny --]

Flynn, I know the only argument they have going is the citizenship. All I am saying that they are entitled to it, really... if *their* criteria of Idol is being a citizen then so be it, all we know that many won't agree to it (I am just making a point on how we have different views on what should be the Idol; one may say The Voice, one may say looks and marketability and in this case, their Idol is someone Australian citizen). I know their views may sound annoying and hurtful but I'd rather see that we put forwards arguments and constructive criticism rather than bashing those girls ( we have more class than that)

I just felt uncomfortable seeing names that have been thrown in this thread. That's all.

[morgaine]

christyl said:

Seriously, though, the real culprit here is the Herald Sun, for publishing an obviously biased viewpoint.

I think this is the real issue here...well said christy.

And the letter is a great idea...give it a try

[flynn]

Fair enough Janny. Name-calling isn't necessary.

I'm not really upset by the last 2 girls comments (re citizenship). I think I just get really annoyed at that uninformed reverse-snobbery where people simply put down artists for being associated with Idol without even bothering to watch the show or knowing anything about them, like Adora-Rose did.

The other two girls arent really saying anything offensive and to be honest, I suspect the interviewer probably mentioned that Damien wasn't an Aussie citizen when they were asked for their opinion. Something like "You know the winner of Australian Idol this year was an Irish guy and not an Australian citizen. What do you think about that?"

They often set up things like that but dont show it in the finished product.

That last girl actually says "we are all immigrants" or something which suggests to me that she was sort of debating the question.

Hope that makes sense.

[christyl]

Is this paper the Herald Sun, or the Sydney Morning Herald? And which page number is it?
(I WILL email the editor)