Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook *Repost*
Apr 27, 2008 11:26:43 GMT 10
Post by Mysterri on Apr 27, 2008 11:26:43 GMT 10
olddantucker wrote:
Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Thread Started on 31 Mar, 2008, 11:56 »
I have long hated this song, and have argued with the missus about it - she thinks its a wonderful wonderful song. I agree that the melody is special, but the lyrics??
Would someone please explain to me what the following lyric means:
this world was never
meant for one
as beautiful as you.
That must be the single most annoying line in a song that I can remember! What the hell is he saying - it's okay to top yourself because you're way to special to live? Us plebs don't deserve you? What?!
olddantucker wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #1 on 31 Mar, 2008, 14:16 »
Well?
thebraff (Braffy)Call me Daffy wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #2 on 31 Mar, 2008, 14:20 »
I have my theories on it Grumblebum but I don't want to be wrong so it is a good question for Travellin' Trilly or maidenlithe
Now......if you had asked this question before the DFest I am sure we could have come up with many sensible sense altered alcoholic, funloving induced answers. ;D
Shimmery wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + Not gobbledegook
« Reply #3 on 31 Mar, 2008, 15:04 »
All I can say is that's one of my favourite parts of a favourite song, a song with some of the most stunning & moving lyrics I've ever seen and which stands it's ground over time as poetry, not just a simple pop tune.
For me, those lines quoted above at the start of this topic are a wistful farewell to an incredible but tortured artist who suffered from mental illness, died in virtual poverty, who was not appreciated in his own time, yet whose art is now traded for millions. "portraits hung in empty halls".
I don't see those lines as an insult to the rest of the world at all, but as an embrace reaching back through time to one who never felt the love of the world when he was with us. I've found that song profoundly moving for many years, and was absolutely thrilled to see Damien was going to do a cover of it!
Just editing to add the original "Starry Night" painting by "the artist's
loving hand", Van Gogh, to look at this painting while considering some of the lyrics is a powerful experience for me.
bipolarworks.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/starry-night.jpg
Here are the lyrics in full, from here
Starry
starry night
paint your palette blue and grey
look out on a summer's day
with eyes that know the
darkness in my soul.
Shadows on the hills
sketch the trees and the daffodils
catch the breeze and the winter chills
in colors on the snowy linen land.
And now I understand what you tried to say to me
how you suffered for your sanity
how you tried to set them free.
They would not listen
they did not know how
perhaps they'll listen now.
Starry
starry night
flaming flo'rs that brightly blaze
swirling clouds in violet haze reflect in
Vincent's eyes of China blue.
Colors changing hue
morning fields of amber grain
weathered faces lined in pain
are soothed beneath the artist's
loving hand.
And now I understand what you tried to say to me
how you suffered for your sanity
how you tried to set them free.
perhaps they'll listen now.
For they could not love you
but still your love was true
and when no hope was left in sight on that starry
starry night.
You took your life
as lovers often do;
But I could have told you
Vincent
this world was never
meant for one
as beautiful as you.
Starry
starry night
portraits hung in empty halls
frameless heads on nameless walls
with eyes
that watch the world and can't forget.
Like the stranger that you've met
the ragged men in ragged clothes
the silver thorn of bloddy rose
lie crushed and broken
on the virgin snow.
And now I think I know what you tried to say to me
how you suffered for your sanity
how you tried to set them free.
They would not listen
they're not
list'ning still
perhaps they never will.
Womby (aka Wiggles) wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #4 on 31 Mar, 2008, 15:18 »
As usual Shims you have managed to put into words exactly what I feel, but never seem to be able to relate as well as you do. I think this is precisely what the lyrics mean - beautifully said
Shimmery wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #5 on 31 Mar, 2008, 15:23 »
womby - I've added a little bit in an edit just now, went back to find the painting which is the namesake of the song and the full lyrics, and I have to admit I can't read them or see Vincent's art without a tear in my eyes.
Mysterri wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #6 on 31 Mar, 2008, 15:30 »
ODT, the song is a comparison to Vincent Van Gogh's life, his passion for art and his eternal struggle with insanity. During Van Gogh's younger years (1876-1880) he wanted to dedicate his life to evangelization of those in poverty.
this world was never
meant for one
as beautiful as you.
I would interpret this lyric to mean that Van Gogh lived in his own world of beauty, creating his art from the insanity that drove him. He didn't see the world as others saw it but interpreted 'his world' in his art. It is a farewell of sorts to a brilliant but very troubled artist.
Below are the lyrics of Vincent and a comparison to Van Gogh's actual life.
Starry, starry night.
Paint your palette blue and grey,
Look out on a summer's day,
With eyes that know the darkness in my soul.
Shadows on the hills,
Sketch the trees and the daffodils,
Catch the breeze and the winter chills,
In colors on the snowy linen land.
Expressing Van Gogh's inspiration for the painting. However, one line says :
"Look out on a summer's day."
which is a false statement as Van Gogh was in an asylum at Saint-Remy, and was not able to paint picture from an actual view point, it is strictly from his mind.
Starry, starry night.
Flaming flowers that brightly blaze, Swirling clouds in violet haze,
Reflect in Vincent's eyes of china blue.
Colors changing hue, morning field of amber grain,
Weathered faces lined in pain,
Are soothed beneath the artist's loving hand.
These are references to other Van Gogh paintings.
Flaming Flowers: The Sunflower Series
Swirling Clouds: Starry Night
Field of Amber Grain: Wheat Field with Crows
Weathered Faces: The Potato Eaters.
For they could not love you,
But still your love was true.
And when no hope was left in sight
On that starry, starry night,
You took your life, as lovers often do.
But I could have told you, Vincent,
This world was never meant for one
As beautiful as you.
This is Van Gogh's tragic Death. Even though he loved painting, his paintings could never love him back.
Van Gogh attempted suicide by shooting himself in the chest, which ultimately led to his death two days later.
Starry, starry night.
Portraits hung in empty halls,
Frameless head on nameless walls,
With eyes that watch the world and can't forget.
Like the strangers that you've met,
The ragged men in the ragged clothes,
The silver thorn of bloody rose,
Lie crushed and broken on the virgin snow.
Van Gogh's artistic legacy is contained within his paintings, drawings and writings. They are everlasting and will never "forget" the style that created them. They are Van Gogh's eyes that watch the world. This is all metaphorically speaking though.
Now I think I know what you tried to say to me,
How you suffered for your sanity,
How you tried to set them free.
They would not listen, they're not listening still.
Perhaps they never will...
Finally we come to the conclusion of realizing Van Gogh's eternal struggle with insanity.
Starry Starry Night Information
Chrism wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #7 on 31 Mar, 2008, 15:31 »
Van Gogh was a really intense bloke. So much so that not many could stand to be around him, hence his only really close relationship was with his brother Theo. Just before his final placement in a sanatorium he tried to set up an artists colony in a place to become known as the 'Yellow House'. Van Gogh was overjoyed when Paul Gauguin agreed to come and stay but they fell out (as Van Gogh did with most people), Gauguin left and Van Gogh started his final decline.
Van Gogh started out as a lay preacher and because of his intensity about spirituality he scared off the flock rather than gathering them in-he then started to paint-he felt that he could best express the intensity of his spirit, soul, being etc. that way, and that people would come to see this spirit (which he called God) in his work. If you allow yourself to be immersed in Van Gogh's paintings you may see that they impart a feeling of beauty and spirit communicating to the viewer over 120 years or so. This is what sends art historians in a spin-it's a unique quality that he managed to capture and impart. He expresses his, and a collective 'soul' in his art work in a way that he was never able to when he was preaching. He did achieve what he set out to do but the achievement was not recognised during his life time. In this regard he is often seen as a 'seer', ie someone who is before their time or ahead of the consciousness of the time in which he lived.
I love Van Gogh's work and I also love the song because it really manages to capture this unique essence of Van Gogh in its lyrics.
That's my take on it ODT.
cantgetenuf wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #8 on 1 Apr, 2008, 1:54 »
Hey ODT. Thanks for playing the devil's advocate
. It's really stirring up some very interesting comments which I love reading.
It's great when we can have decent discussion of Damien's work rather than just the personality. I hope we get more of this kind of thread. We don't all have to like everything or even in the same way. So it's good that we have the option to be critical.
To be truthful , when I heard he was doing a Don Maclean song (or two), I was hoping for a less famous song because it seems too safe and obvious as a choice (and Maclean has done some other brilliant ones). Still, I've really loved the song Vincent since it first came out. The colours, images and tormented emotions really connect with me and I'm sure Damien's interpretation on his album will reflect his own feelings quite deeply. i'm really looking forward to Damien singing this on the album and live again.
christyl wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #9 on 1 Apr, 2008, 11:38 »
Fabulous thread! Great comments, everyone....I am really enjoying following this.
Ok, here are my thoughts (also echoing much of what Shims and Terri said earlier):
The world that Van Gogh lived in had some pretty rigid definitions of Art ...bear in mind the art of Constable and other romantics. The Impressionists broke with tradition in so many ways....artists who did not have wealthy patrons but starved in garrets, who consorted with the "lower orders" and painted them (Degas was considered particularly scandalous because of his association with opera/ballet dancers, many of whom also made their living as prostitutes and were therefore considered "beyond the pale"), and some who "burnt out" early like the proverbial "candle in the wind" (eg: Modgliani died in his 30s [from venereal disease, if I remember rightly?], Gaugin went "native" [particularly scandalous!]...). Art, you see, was meant to lift people above the commonplace into a loftier world, not define the commonplace.
To most artistic critices of that time, Van Goghs pictures of simple sunflowers rendered many times over (perhaps to try and get them "right", who knows??) were considered the equivalent of childs paintings, and had little or no artistic merit at all. So one would argue that the world that he lived in at the time did not indeed appreciate the beauty he saw and painted, and therefore had even less chance of appreciating him.
I have always loved the song for the same reasons that Shims outlined, too....it captures the essence of the tortured soul he was so well, and as such echoes the emotions of everyone who has felt out of step or misunderstood...
PS. Hey Shims, are you thinking that if you put all the words in, it might also help Damien to remember them next time?
olddantucker wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #10 on 7 Apr, 2008, 15:17 »
Thanks all - I still can't stand the viewpoint expressed in this song but at least I can see the other ways of thinking about it.
Tina wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #11 on 7 Apr, 2008, 15:57 »
Thanks everyone! I didn't know any of that, so it will help me to appreciate this song even more!
What a lot of lyrics, no wonder Damien forgot a few words!!
olddantucker wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #12 on 7 Apr, 2008, 16:25 »
Shame he didn't forget more in this case! Maybe he could just hum the melody instead? Is that TOO much to ask?? Huh? Huh? Oh.
cantgetenuf wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #13 on 7 Apr, 2008, 16:40 »
hmmm ODT...
when I saw the green smiley it just reminded me of your interesting comment
poor Damo.
Trilly wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #14 on 7 Apr, 2008, 19:01 »
Crankypants is up to his old tricks I see.
This thread is wonderful. 
I always interpreted the lyrics to mean, as Christyl explained, that the world of the ordinary and mundane was never the way Van Gogh saw it. He saw beauty in the everyday, the grizzled, the marginalized. His universe was a hyper-reality, which unfortunately made staying sane in our world difficult. Everything he felt and did was at the extreme edge..hence the gift of his ear to his beloved.
I love the lyrics and the melody of this song. It's one of Don Mclean's very best..and that's saying something!
Damien sings it beautifully.I'm really glad it's onthe album.
Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Thread Started on 31 Mar, 2008, 11:56 »
I have long hated this song, and have argued with the missus about it - she thinks its a wonderful wonderful song. I agree that the melody is special, but the lyrics??
Would someone please explain to me what the following lyric means:this world was never
meant for one
as beautiful as you.
That must be the single most annoying line in a song that I can remember! What the hell is he saying - it's okay to top yourself because you're way to special to live? Us plebs don't deserve you? What?!
_______________________________________________________________
olddantucker wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #1 on 31 Mar, 2008, 14:16 »
Well?
_______________________________________________________________
thebraff (Braffy)Call me Daffy wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #2 on 31 Mar, 2008, 14:20 »
I have my theories on it Grumblebum but I don't want to be wrong so it is a good question for Travellin' Trilly or maidenlithe
Now......if you had asked this question before the DFest I am sure we could have come up with many sensible sense altered alcoholic, funloving induced answers. ;D
_______________________________________________________________
Shimmery wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + Not gobbledegook
« Reply #3 on 31 Mar, 2008, 15:04 »
All I can say is that's one of my favourite parts of a favourite song, a song with some of the most stunning & moving lyrics I've ever seen and which stands it's ground over time as poetry, not just a simple pop tune.
For me, those lines quoted above at the start of this topic are a wistful farewell to an incredible but tortured artist who suffered from mental illness, died in virtual poverty, who was not appreciated in his own time, yet whose art is now traded for millions. "portraits hung in empty halls".
I don't see those lines as an insult to the rest of the world at all, but as an embrace reaching back through time to one who never felt the love of the world when he was with us. I've found that song profoundly moving for many years, and was absolutely thrilled to see Damien was going to do a cover of it!
Just editing to add the original "Starry Night" painting by "the artist's
loving hand", Van Gogh, to look at this painting while considering some of the lyrics is a powerful experience for me.
bipolarworks.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/starry-night.jpg
Here are the lyrics in full, from here
Starry
starry night
paint your palette blue and grey
look out on a summer's day
with eyes that know the
darkness in my soul.
Shadows on the hills
sketch the trees and the daffodils
catch the breeze and the winter chills
in colors on the snowy linen land.
And now I understand what you tried to say to me
how you suffered for your sanity
how you tried to set them free.
They would not listen
they did not know how
perhaps they'll listen now.
Starry
starry night
flaming flo'rs that brightly blaze
swirling clouds in violet haze reflect in
Vincent's eyes of China blue.
Colors changing hue
morning fields of amber grain
weathered faces lined in pain
are soothed beneath the artist's
loving hand.
And now I understand what you tried to say to me
how you suffered for your sanity
how you tried to set them free.
perhaps they'll listen now.
For they could not love you
but still your love was true
and when no hope was left in sight on that starry
starry night.
You took your life
as lovers often do;
But I could have told you
Vincent
this world was never
meant for one
as beautiful as you.
Starry
starry night
portraits hung in empty halls
frameless heads on nameless walls
with eyes
that watch the world and can't forget.
Like the stranger that you've met
the ragged men in ragged clothes
the silver thorn of bloddy rose
lie crushed and broken
on the virgin snow.
And now I think I know what you tried to say to me
how you suffered for your sanity
how you tried to set them free.
They would not listen
they're not
list'ning still
perhaps they never will.
_______________________________________________________________
Womby (aka Wiggles) wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #4 on 31 Mar, 2008, 15:18 »
As usual Shims you have managed to put into words exactly what I feel, but never seem to be able to relate as well as you do. I think this is precisely what the lyrics mean - beautifully said
_______________________________________________________________
Shimmery wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #5 on 31 Mar, 2008, 15:23 »
womby - I've added a little bit in an edit just now, went back to find the painting which is the namesake of the song and the full lyrics, and I have to admit I can't read them or see Vincent's art without a tear in my eyes. _______________________________________________________________
Mysterri wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #6 on 31 Mar, 2008, 15:30 »
ODT, the song is a comparison to Vincent Van Gogh's life, his passion for art and his eternal struggle with insanity. During Van Gogh's younger years (1876-1880) he wanted to dedicate his life to evangelization of those in poverty.
this world was never
meant for one
as beautiful as you.
I would interpret this lyric to mean that Van Gogh lived in his own world of beauty, creating his art from the insanity that drove him. He didn't see the world as others saw it but interpreted 'his world' in his art. It is a farewell of sorts to a brilliant but very troubled artist.
Below are the lyrics of Vincent and a comparison to Van Gogh's actual life.
Starry, starry night.
Paint your palette blue and grey,
Look out on a summer's day,
With eyes that know the darkness in my soul.
Shadows on the hills,
Sketch the trees and the daffodils,
Catch the breeze and the winter chills,
In colors on the snowy linen land.
Expressing Van Gogh's inspiration for the painting. However, one line says :
"Look out on a summer's day."
which is a false statement as Van Gogh was in an asylum at Saint-Remy, and was not able to paint picture from an actual view point, it is strictly from his mind.
Starry, starry night.
Flaming flowers that brightly blaze, Swirling clouds in violet haze,
Reflect in Vincent's eyes of china blue.
Colors changing hue, morning field of amber grain,
Weathered faces lined in pain,
Are soothed beneath the artist's loving hand.
These are references to other Van Gogh paintings.
Flaming Flowers: The Sunflower Series
Swirling Clouds: Starry Night
Field of Amber Grain: Wheat Field with Crows
Weathered Faces: The Potato Eaters.
For they could not love you,
But still your love was true.
And when no hope was left in sight
On that starry, starry night,
You took your life, as lovers often do.
But I could have told you, Vincent,
This world was never meant for one
As beautiful as you.
This is Van Gogh's tragic Death. Even though he loved painting, his paintings could never love him back.
Van Gogh attempted suicide by shooting himself in the chest, which ultimately led to his death two days later.
Starry, starry night.
Portraits hung in empty halls,
Frameless head on nameless walls,
With eyes that watch the world and can't forget.
Like the strangers that you've met,
The ragged men in the ragged clothes,
The silver thorn of bloody rose,
Lie crushed and broken on the virgin snow.
Van Gogh's artistic legacy is contained within his paintings, drawings and writings. They are everlasting and will never "forget" the style that created them. They are Van Gogh's eyes that watch the world. This is all metaphorically speaking though.
Now I think I know what you tried to say to me,
How you suffered for your sanity,
How you tried to set them free.
They would not listen, they're not listening still.
Perhaps they never will...
Finally we come to the conclusion of realizing Van Gogh's eternal struggle with insanity.
Starry Starry Night Information
_______________________________________________________________
Chrism wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #7 on 31 Mar, 2008, 15:31 »
Van Gogh was a really intense bloke. So much so that not many could stand to be around him, hence his only really close relationship was with his brother Theo. Just before his final placement in a sanatorium he tried to set up an artists colony in a place to become known as the 'Yellow House'. Van Gogh was overjoyed when Paul Gauguin agreed to come and stay but they fell out (as Van Gogh did with most people), Gauguin left and Van Gogh started his final decline.
Van Gogh started out as a lay preacher and because of his intensity about spirituality he scared off the flock rather than gathering them in-he then started to paint-he felt that he could best express the intensity of his spirit, soul, being etc. that way, and that people would come to see this spirit (which he called God) in his work. If you allow yourself to be immersed in Van Gogh's paintings you may see that they impart a feeling of beauty and spirit communicating to the viewer over 120 years or so. This is what sends art historians in a spin-it's a unique quality that he managed to capture and impart. He expresses his, and a collective 'soul' in his art work in a way that he was never able to when he was preaching. He did achieve what he set out to do but the achievement was not recognised during his life time. In this regard he is often seen as a 'seer', ie someone who is before their time or ahead of the consciousness of the time in which he lived.
I love Van Gogh's work and I also love the song because it really manages to capture this unique essence of Van Gogh in its lyrics.
That's my take on it ODT.
_______________________________________________________________
cantgetenuf wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #8 on 1 Apr, 2008, 1:54 »
Hey ODT. Thanks for playing the devil's advocate
. It's really stirring up some very interesting comments which I love reading. It's great when we can have decent discussion of Damien's work rather than just the personality. I hope we get more of this kind of thread. We don't all have to like everything or even in the same way. So it's good that we have the option to be critical.
To be truthful , when I heard he was doing a Don Maclean song (or two), I was hoping for a less famous song because it seems too safe and obvious as a choice (and Maclean has done some other brilliant ones). Still, I've really loved the song Vincent since it first came out. The colours, images and tormented emotions really connect with me and I'm sure Damien's interpretation on his album will reflect his own feelings quite deeply. i'm really looking forward to Damien singing this on the album and live again.
_______________________________________________________________
christyl wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #9 on 1 Apr, 2008, 11:38 »
Fabulous thread! Great comments, everyone....I am really enjoying following this.
Ok, here are my thoughts (also echoing much of what Shims and Terri said earlier):
The world that Van Gogh lived in had some pretty rigid definitions of Art ...bear in mind the art of Constable and other romantics. The Impressionists broke with tradition in so many ways....artists who did not have wealthy patrons but starved in garrets, who consorted with the "lower orders" and painted them (Degas was considered particularly scandalous because of his association with opera/ballet dancers, many of whom also made their living as prostitutes and were therefore considered "beyond the pale"), and some who "burnt out" early like the proverbial "candle in the wind" (eg: Modgliani died in his 30s [from venereal disease, if I remember rightly?], Gaugin went "native" [particularly scandalous!]...). Art, you see, was meant to lift people above the commonplace into a loftier world, not define the commonplace.
To most artistic critices of that time, Van Goghs pictures of simple sunflowers rendered many times over (perhaps to try and get them "right", who knows??) were considered the equivalent of childs paintings, and had little or no artistic merit at all. So one would argue that the world that he lived in at the time did not indeed appreciate the beauty he saw and painted, and therefore had even less chance of appreciating him.
I have always loved the song for the same reasons that Shims outlined, too....it captures the essence of the tortured soul he was so well, and as such echoes the emotions of everyone who has felt out of step or misunderstood...
PS. Hey Shims, are you thinking that if you put all the words in, it might also help Damien to remember them next time?
_______________________________________________________________
olddantucker wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #10 on 7 Apr, 2008, 15:17 »
Thanks all - I still can't stand the viewpoint expressed in this song but at least I can see the other ways of thinking about it.
_______________________________________________________________
Tina wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #11 on 7 Apr, 2008, 15:57 »
Thanks everyone! I didn't know any of that, so it will help me to appreciate this song even more!
What a lot of lyrics, no wonder Damien forgot a few words!!
_______________________________________________________________
olddantucker wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #12 on 7 Apr, 2008, 16:25 »
Shame he didn't forget more in this case! Maybe he could just hum the melody instead? Is that TOO much to ask?? Huh? Huh? Oh.
_______________________________________________________________
cantgetenuf wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #13 on 7 Apr, 2008, 16:40 »
hmmm ODT...
when I saw the green smiley it just reminded me of your interesting comment
poor Damo.
_______________________________________________________________
Trilly wrote:
Re: Vincent - great melody + gobbledegook
« Reply #14 on 7 Apr, 2008, 19:01 »
Crankypants is up to his old tricks I see.
This thread is wonderful. 
I always interpreted the lyrics to mean, as Christyl explained, that the world of the ordinary and mundane was never the way Van Gogh saw it. He saw beauty in the everyday, the grizzled, the marginalized. His universe was a hyper-reality, which unfortunately made staying sane in our world difficult. Everything he felt and did was at the extreme edge..hence the gift of his ear to his beloved.
I love the lyrics and the melody of this song. It's one of Don Mclean's very best..and that's saying something!
Damien sings it beautifully.I'm really glad it's onthe album.
_______________________________________________________________